Back in March, designers pulled out the stops on the question, “How do you work?” Then in April, I asked the same of writers. And as the photography section of this series is no different …

Bill

I work personally with all my clients, from our very first contact to my delivery of the final images plus follow-up. The exact workflow varies widely with the circumstances: some deals are done completely over the phone or by e-mail; in other cases, I visit and consult with the client at their offices; or sometimes they come visit me at my studio.

In the case of architectural shoots, if it the location is at all nearby, I like to scout it and do a walk-through with the client before the shoot — but if the location is in another city that we have to fly to or drive several hours to reach, we just bring a lot of equipment, so we’re ready for anything; and those shoots have worked out great, too.

My studio, my office, and my residence, are all in the same building — a restored Art Deco building in Miami’s South Beach. So essentially when my clients get my phone numbers — the land-line and my cell phone — they can reach me after-hours or on the weekends. I work on weekends often — and sometimes take weekdays off. Every week is different.

I prefer to be contacted at least three weeks before the planned shoot — but in the real world we all know that folks often call with urgent projects and little advance time, even with very big projects. We always try to accommodate them, but sometimes we are constrained by previous commitments or by logistical realities. On the other hand, we’ve been able to do lots of the last-minute assignments, too, and our clients love us.

I always send clients a written proposal (even if we discussed everything verbally); and upon my acceptance of an assignment, I generally require a 50% advance up front; and in connection with that I send the client a detailed invoice with terms and conditions, which also serves as a contract. For certain large projects I’ll also send a formal contract that both parties sign.

In general, I think part of my job is to make life easier for my clients — and that includes not only creating beautiful and effective photographs, but also giving great service.

Bill Wisser | Advertising and Editorial Photographer
Bill Wisser Photo.com | The Naked Eye

Bruce

I’m a business, lifestyle, portrait and fashion photographer. These days I use very little auxiliary lighting since digital captures allow me to use post production to enhance the file thus making it easier to capture the emotion on set. I work fast, take a lot of frames and – more than anything – have fun with my subjects. I’m exclusively digital since the workflow is so dramatically different that it was with film.

Bruce DeBoer | Photographer
DeBoerWorks Photographic Productions

Jeffrey

Alone. Just kidding! I often work unsupervised (clients are rarely on site with me) but I am big on COLABORATION! I photograph mostly architectural products and environments so I often walk the site with the designer and gain a real understanding of their visual ideas and together we explore the most flattering views to explain the design, although I am often asked to “go do your thing”. I am happiest in collaboration unless I have worked the client several times and already know what they want or have an in-depth conversation or two depending on the complexity of the project.

Jeffrey Jacobs | President
Jeffrey Jacobs Photography Inc.

Jon

I work to a photography brief normally, this can be loose or pretty descriptive. Sometimes I get to interpret the brief and sometimes I work with an Art Director or Creative Director who will have a rough idea of what they want to achieve from the shoot. Sometimes I work solo - sometimes with an assistant and sometimes with a crew, it all depends on the project and the budget!

Jon Boyes | Advertising and Editorial Photographer
Jon Boyes

Patrick

I’ve always worked very closely with my stylist/assistant. After the initial production meetings we usually brain storm over the layouts, products to be photographed, and design notes. At this time I’ve always found my collection of tear sheets from other catalogues, magazines, books and the web very useful for cementing down an overall mood, and lighting.

Patrick Chuprina | Photographer
Chuprina Studios

Rochelle

I like to be versatile in my work methods, and to me this is just another aspect of being creative. I mostly rely on email and phone to communicate, but I enjoy face to face meetings as well. When a client gives me a completion date for a project, I use this to plan a timeline for myself, working backwards from that date to establish how long the project will take to complete. I find it helpful to break the project into smaller components and plan the time needed for each, then add on a little extra for unexpected contingencies. If I don’t end up needing the extra time, it’s great to pleasantly surprise my client with the project completed early.

Rochelle Dahl | Photographer & Designer
Rochelle Dahl Designs

Tom

At first contact I try to gauge how far along in the creative process the client is. Sometimes they have clear expectations, other times I try to work them through their creative process to determine what they need. If it’s an architecture shoot I send over a questionnaire that determines what they have access to and what I might need for the project. For other projects, I develop a list of questions and send it over. This gives me a little time to digest what they said and decide what information I may need to put together a proposal. After this I normally try to get a face-to-face meeting (if possible) to discuss the price, usage, goals, etc. Before the project is begun, a contract should always be signed to protect both parties and spell out everything required to make sure a project is finished.

Tom Smalling | Photographer
Tom Smalling Photography & Design | Tom Smalling’s Photography Blog

Will

This varies greatly, depending on the client and project. If I have an existing relationship with a client face to face meetings and contracts are often waived. Unfortunately budget also plays a critical part in my working method. If the budget allows it, I’m more than happy to do those extras.

Will Williams | Photographer and Designer
Perspective-Images.com

For more information on how photographers work, ASMP has an excellent article, Working With An Assignment Photographer.

Next we’ll read how our photographers responded to the question, “How should a company or individual in your profession be chosen?”

until the next
Designers WW,
cat

On the last post, photographers answered the question, “As a professional designer, what are the main points you want clients (potential and present) to know before contacting you about a project?” Another way to learn how to work with photographers is to find out what not to do.

So, borrowing from what could potentially be a leap over hindsight, I asked the question, “When working with designers, what do you see as the top problem areas?”

Bill

No major problems! However, sometimes a designer or art director will say something like: “well, this will only take you half-a-day” — while I know it will take longer.

I’d prefer it if they’d just describe the job, and then ask me how long I think it will take to do. Designers’ time estimates sometimes fail to factor in such things as packing, loading, unloading, setting up, breaking down, repacking and reloading the lighting equipment — not to mention the time spend in digital post production.

I shoot all-digital — almost always RAW files. My rule of thumb is that the post-production time needed to perform digital processing and preliminary color correction and optimization of the pictures, and then produce digital contact sheets, or an on-line gallery for the client, plus a few samples of fully optimized images, will take me at least as long as the photo-shoot itself did.

Also . . . if the time and money required to produce a shoot a certain way is too much for the budget the designer has, it’s often possible to do the shoot a different way . . . for instance, without the big lights, and thus without the time and the assistant(s) that the big lights require.

Maybe, for instance, the job could be shot in a quick photojournalistic manner with no lights, or just with small battery powered lights bounced off a wall or a ceiling — this may create a somewhat different look and feeling than my the big lights do, but it can be extremely effective for certain projects.

All this should be discussed candidly, but one problem is that it’s often hard to find out what the designer’s true budget really is for the job.

Many times I will ask up-front, how much are you planning to allocate for all this photography, what is your budget? And the designer or art buyer will say, “Oh, we don’t have any budget number in mind, just give us an estimate.” Then I put together an estimate for them — which for a complex shoot may take me hours of work — and when I deliver the estimate, sometimes the reply is “Oh, that’s much more than our budget, which x dollars!” Well, only the day before, the designer told me they had no specific budget number in mind.

Of course, if you read and believe some books on negotiating, it’s smart to do that. According to some business gurus, the party who gives a price first in a negotiation is at a disadvantage — hence the coy little charade by the designer or art buyer.

But I think it’s dumb. I’d rather get at least a ballpark estimate or range from the designer or art buyer, so I can either craft an appropriate photographic approach that will do the job within their range, or tell them I can’t do the job that I believe they want within their range — and not waste my time on putting together a great proposal that will be out of their area of possibility.

I think being realistic and candid about the budget range is actually a smarter way for the designer to go. And it by no means precludes responsible negotiating. Indeed, it may result in a better result for the designer — and for their client.

Bill Wisser | Advertising and Editorial Photographer
Bill Wisser Photo.com | The Naked Eye

Bruce

Low level experience combined with the need to CYA can be tough on a photographer. This isn’t limited to designers nor is it limited to photographers. Experience helps give the designers the confidence to let go a measure of creative vision thus giving the photographer some room to breath and add greater value. I love them all but many of my best designer clients are very fastidious about the finest detail which can detract from the emotion of a photograph and can even add needless tension to the set.

Bruce DeBoer | Photographer
DeBoerWorks Photographic Productions

Damian Counsell

I’ve only ever worked for one designer—and he’s a friend who’s done me plenty of favours so I did the jobs for free. I imagine the most likely source of trouble would be if the client was unclear about his or her goals. It’s harder to score a bullseye if you don’t know where the target is.

Damian Counsell | Photographer
Sepial fine film photography | The Wedding Photography Blog

Dave

The single biggest issue is that fine art photography sites need to be changing all the time. Suppose that you are a great (but unknown) fine art photographer. You have say 50 wonderful images to display. Oh - make it a hundred. The typical potential buyer, assuming that they find your site somehow, will browse through images, and maybe email you, but they won’t buy anything at the time. They need a reason to return.

Generally this means that the website has to be changing in some way. If it means adding photographs, then the site has to make this easy for the photographer to do. But the biggest single issue is that the fine art photographer doesn’t have money for online advertising. And frankly, even if he/she does - online advertising doesn’t work well for fine art photography.

So that means you are reliant on the search engine for exposure. What follows is that the web designer should be totally conversant with how search engines work - esp. Google - and has to think twice for example when they are going to design the site in Flash. In other words, the very design of the site is related to how visible it will be.

So those are the biggest problems I see with designers: not having a site that is easily updateable by the photographer, and not being concerned enough with the sites’ search visibility.

Dave Beckerman | Photographer / Owner
Dave Beckerman Photography | Black and White Photography

Jeffrey

Not to drive this into the ground, but designers need to know what they want or don’t want. If a designer doesn’t know what they want that’s fine… really, it’s just they have to be honest about it. Clients call me all the time and not really know what they want but they know they like my creative result so I’m asked produce a similar result (or something new). Good communication is very important, it amazing how “creative communicators” often fail to communicate with each other. Some clients know what they want but have difficulty explaining their ideas or their client’s ideas. I might add if I don’t understand your needs it is up to me to tell you and be sure I understand your needs before I accept the project. Communication is a two way street.

Jeffrey Jacobs | Photographer / President
Jeffrey Jacobs Photography Inc.

Jon

Copyright & licensing:

Designers who don’t want to understand the way professional photographers charge. Many a time a call has ended with “that includes the copyright doesn’t it”? I’m afraid it doesn’t! It’s equally as important for designers to protect the intellectual property rights in their designs as it is for photographers to protect the intellectual property rights in their images. I have met many young (and old!) designers who routinely throw copyright in for free with their designs which is quite unbelievable.

Selling the copyright to your designs or images is a bad business decision. Even if (what may appear at the time to be) a large amount of money is offered for your copyright you have no way of knowing what uses your work will be put to, or how valuable your work really is to the client. What may appear to you as a major payday now could be folly in years to come if your logo or image is reused worldwide in prolific ad campaigns or becomes the “signature logo/image” for your client’s business. This is why licencing your work is best - you get usage fees based upon the use of your work.

If someone is offering you $$$ for your copyright then it figures that it must be valuable to your client have that copyright! So by retaining your copyright and licencing your work - if your logo/image goes big time then you will get royalties proportionate to its use rather than a lump sum up front that may equate to a couple of years use only. Good at the time but 10 years down the line when you’re getting no revenue but seeing your work everywhere will you feel it was a good deal?

Jon Boyes | Advertising and Editorial Photographer
Jon Boyes

Patrick

Designers/clients who do not take the time to give final approval of an important large image before the set has been struck and upon reviewing the image at a later date decide they would like to make adjustments. Although the designer cannot always be available during the shoot, they should make time for approval via jpeg emails or other means. Reshoots for minor adjustments are demoralizing, a waste time and cost money.

Designer/clients often expect electronic post processing and/or color correcting to be done at no charge, when in fact, these processes take additional time, expertise, and should be charged accordingly. In the old days of film, this work was farmed out to film strippers and film retouchers and was invoiced separately.

Patrick Chuprina | Photographer
Chuprina Studios

Rochelle

Designers need to provide adequate direction as to the photography that they are looking for. I would really discourage photographers from agreeing to do a lengthy photo shoot without any guidelines, because none of those images could end up being used, causing a re-shoot, more cost and delays. Plus, the frustration is not usually conducive to creative thought!

Rochelle Dahl | Photographer & Designer
Rochelle Dahl Designs

Tom

Be sure to talk to the photographer about the intent/purpose of the project and allow them a chance to offer their experience on what they can bring to the project. We all (designers included) grit our teeth at those clients who want to have complete and total control over project and micromanage the process. Make sure all the decision makers are involved early in the project and everyone is working towards the same goal.

Tom Smalling | Photographer
Tom Smalling Photography & Design | Tom Smalling’s Photography Blog

Will

Lack of focus on one problem at a time, some designers will bounce between projects and problems. While multi-tasking is essential, having a predefined work flow can make a project run smoother.

Will Williams | Photographer and Designer
Perspective-Images.com

Next up is question three where I asked our photographers, “How do you work?” When writer Tom Chandler was asked the same question, he gave the honest answer, “Some days more slowly than others.” Yeah, I sure can relate.

until the next
Designers WW,
cat

If you’ve never worked with a photographer before, then you’ll most likely find this series helpful. Understanding how photographers work will go a long way to making your relationship easier down the road. And not just your relationship with the photographer. You need to know what questions / suggestions to put to your client before you even get to the point of purchasing photos.

Starting off with question one, I asked “What are the main points that you’d expect / want designers to know before contacting you about a project?”

Bill

First of all, I’m delighted and grateful when any potential client contacts me — and I always welcome them. I feel honored that they’ve heard about me, or have seen my website, and are calling me to involve me in their project. And it’s great to be contacted at an early stage of the planning, when I can hopefully help them plan the photography component well.

Of course, at some point, we have to think through together and articulate the specifics of what they need: the number of shots, a description of them, the feeling or ambience they would like the shots to create, the deadline, the planned usage and so on.

Sometimes clients call up and just ask something like “I need photographs of a kitchen, how much will it cost?”

As stated, that’s impossible to answer authoritatively.

I’ll probably reply along the lines of “I’ll create really beautiful kitchen photos for you, photos that you and your client will just love and which will help you achieve all your marketing goals . . . . but now, in order to give you a really accurate estimate for this assignment, I need to understand a bit more about the specifics of what you need . . . for instance, how many shots are there? Where is the kitchen? What is your deadline? What is the usage? Are their any special details that the pictures should show? What is the general feeling or ambience the pictures should evoke? How much are you planning to allocate for all this photography, what is your budget?” etc.

Bill Wisser | Advertising and Editorial Photographer
Bill Wisser Photo.com | The Naked Eye

Bruce

This varies according from designer to designer. I’ve been asked to be involved in concepting which means very little is known and I’ve been asked for an estimate when nearly every detail about the project is set. Besides a project description, details like Copyrights needed and budget target are necessary if you want an accurate estimate of price and scope. Unless you want bids, offering even an approximate budget target will help define the scope of the project; projects are somewhat scaleable as I’m sure you know. Without a ballpark figure, I approach an estimate assuming no compromises. These days, however, compromise and budget tradeoffs are a reality – it’s best to confide in the photographer you really want to work with rather than to pit one against the other price wise.

Bruce DeBoer | Photographer
DeBoerWorks Photographic Productions

Damian Counsell

I’d like to know what they want on three levels:

1. The boring technical level: Do you want JPGs, PNGs, transparencies or prints? What size, resolution, colour? When will you need them?
2. The artistic level: What kind of look are you after? What kind of effect are you after? What kind of image does your work already have?
3. The functional level: What do you want to achieve? Are you trying to sell something? Are you trying to illustrate something?

Number 3 is the most important. Design is art with a purpose. If I get an honest answer to 3—from any kind of client—then I can use my experience and knowledge to provide sensible answers to questions 1 and 2.

Damian Counsell | Photographer
Sepial fine film photography | The Wedding Photography Blog

Dave

First off, there is next to no money in selling original fine art photography on the web (which is what I do). So if they are going to target a fine-art photographer with the promise that they can help them sell their photography on-line - that is probably not going to work.

If they are going to contact the fine-art photographer with the idea of making an attractive online portfolio that can help them have a web presence, then keep it simple and cheap.

Commercial Photography is different, and by commercial I include wedding photography. This is a very lucrative (or can be) profession where the touch of a beautiful web design can be just the enticement the would-be bride/groom need to make a decision.

The wedding photographer has specific needs that usually go past the simple portfolio. The bride/groom will want to make their selections online. Online functionality can be expanded past a simple browsing portfolio. The couple can say, we’d like two of these at this size. We’d like the wedding album to be like this. In other words, a full-service wedding photography site can be complex, but as I mentioned there is money in shooting weddings.

The same goes for just about any other commercial type of photography: tabletop, portrait, food specialist. Again - this is more of a portfolio and as a web designer - this may be one of the best opportunities because the functionality is going to be simple, and the client will have money.

Dave Beckerman | Photographer / Owner
Dave Beckerman Photography | Black and White Photography

Jeffrey

I want to know as much about the project as possible. For instance, how the image will be used, and what audience the image needs to appeal too. I need to know as much about the physical project (subject) as possible. Is it interior, exterior, will I need a studio or is it a location set? If they have specific ideas about the creative approach or are they wanting to rely on my vision or are they interested in a collaboration of sorts. They need to know what they want in this regard, it is very important, if a client contacts me about a project and says they want my vision, then arrives the day of the project with all kinds of preconceived ideas (that they have kept all to themselves until the shoot day) it’s likely no one will realize their vision.

Jeffrey Jacobs | President
Jeffrey Jacobs Photography Inc.

Jon

It would be very nice to know/have as fuller brief as possible in order to estimate. Estimating is tricky at best of times so a full brief including a shot list etc (if known) is a great benefit. Professional photographers price on the media usage of the images so details of the campaign’s proposed uses of the images are crucial as it underpins the license granted and fees charged. This applies to both above and below the line jobs. Any mockups, artwork or art direction is also of benefit to see how involved the job is, what style is required, what sort of retouching is needed, location scouting/permits required, models, crew? etc etc.. The approximate number of FINAL retouched images to be delivered is also of huge benefit. This normally changes on any project but initially are we looking at one hero shot, five, ten? Also, a rough guide to the budget available would be good. Though rarely given, if a figure is proposed the photographer can let the designer know what they can expect for their budget.

Jon Boyes | Advertising and Editorial Photographer
Jon Boyes

Patrick

Firstly, I would expect the designer and their client to have a relatively clear idea of what they hope to accomplish and an idea of what they want the finished images to look like. Often supplying a tear sheet showing a mood or feeling helps to visually ensure we understand each other. Although, I truly enjoy the creative process of working together with a designer/client and crafting an image.

I would want the designer to have an idea of a layout, knowledge of the product, if the product is to be close cropped, and/or a rough image sizing. Although understanding the restraints of any design, a product with horizontal dimensions does quite often look better in a horizontally formatted crop. I’d also expect the designer to have knowledge of any overlaying type. There is nothing more heartbreaking then to have a well crafted image reshot because there was not enough room for type, and/or the type covered up an important element of the image.

I would hope the designer/client would come equipped with a relatively fair time line for completion of the project and the appropriate budget.

Patrick Chuprina | Photographer
Chuprina Studios

Rochelle

The key points are budget, deadline, and expectations.

Rochelle Dahl | Photographer & Designer
Rochelle Dahl Designs

Tom

There is a lot of overlap between the photography and design fields, especially in the preplanning. With any photographer it helps to know the final specifications for what is required before the job starts. Do you need a single photo, or a series of photos, room for copy, landscape, portrait, overall colors, etc. Understanding the requirements allows me to deliver exactly what the client expects with a minimal amount of miscommunication.

Tom Smalling | Photographer
Tom Smalling Photography & Design | Tom Smalling’s Photography Blog

Will

The target audience of their project. If the the imagery doesn’t mesh, the message can easily be lost or misinterpreted and then everyone has failed at their objective.

Will Williams | Photographer and Designer
Perspective-Images.com

In the hopes of benefiting from their experiences with designers, next up in the series is question number two: “When working with designers, what do you see as the top problem areas?”

until the next
Designers WW,
cat

Since we’ve already had the designers and writers section of this series, I’m pretty sure you already know the drill. But, for those landing on this post, below is a short explanation.

The Designers Working With Series is about getting real people to share opinions on how they work in, or with, the design industry.

Seven short questions were asked of designers, writers, photographers, marketeers, printers and pre press specialists (I’ll add more professions as I work through the list).

1. What are the main points that you’d expect / want designers to know before contacting you about a project?
2. When working with designers, what do you see as the top problem areas?
3. How do you work?
4. How should a company or individual in your profession be chosen?
5. At what point should your profession be brought into a project?
6. How do you charge?
7. How can a designer improve their skills in your industry?

On Monday I’ll introduce the photographers who have generously given of their time. The seven questions will follow on Mondays and Fridays, along with a few resources thrown in.

Btw - the information in this series is pretty decent (if I must say so myself). If you’d like a quick rundown, check out the Writers and Designers summaries.

If you would like to be included in the series, contact me for details.

until the next
Designers WW,
cat